I've worked in my spare time this summer onto the same project. My goal was more focused towards creating a process that ease the transition of pcb designs from standard manifacturing to 3d printing. For instance by connecting each trace to a single point of contact with the anode via pillars that could [maybe someday] be automatically generated and than had to be removed after the plating, here a (failed) example with 2 traces https://imgur.com/a/L6cxBWA . You guys were faster/smarter :) Now I'm inspired to catch up again with this project, I'll try with a commercial plating solution instead of vinegar the next time.
BTW I found that by stirring the solution
(magnetic PTFE stirrer + ghetto style agitation plate made using magnets and a PC fan) during plating I was able to increase the current and decrease deposition time without damaging the piece.
That is awesome man, we also started from the columns approach, its definitely something I am still exploring. I haven't done much with stirring yet but will look into it. I am definitely looking to increase the deposition speed. If you want to collaborate a bit on this idea, send me a DM on twitter @shaunmulligan9 . I am sure there is a lot we can learn from each other!
Great project. I am looking into copper chemistry and how to automate ground extraction. I want to be able to build PCBs from scratch or recycled copper from old tracks. I can get copper into a copper sulphate solution probably using electrochemistry of copper in aqueous sulfur dioxide to produce Chevreul's salt. Then if I burn these salts in air I should get copper sulphate. This will allow full reprap. I want to then follow The Print 'n Plate Series on my channels if that's okay.
Hi actually protopasta pointed me to this project, since they "used to" tell people like me when they asked if you can electroplate onto this filament without conductive paint - "no"...but you seem to be doing it?! Very impressive. Can you offer any advice on that? Do you have to limit the strength of the acid to not eat the PLA? I'm hoping I can use this to eliminate my graphite+varnish paint initial step and go straight to copper (then nickel, then gold).
Hi Michael, sorry I must have missed this message! As far at the plating solution goes I didn't do anything to limit the strength of the acid, it's just a standard solution I got from https://www.drgalva.com/ . You can definitely go straight to copper in you standard setup. I have found that you need to make a really solid connection with the PLA, the best thing I have found is to use melted inserts in the PLA part and use those as connection points.
Have you tried printing the conductive filament onto FR4 material, rather than onto another layer of plastic? FR4 would solve the heat issue with soldering. Assuming you can print onto FR4.
Haven't tried that yet, I assume it would be possible to print directly onto FR4, our goal was to try do this with as few "exotic" materials as possible, but it's worth an experiment as it would definitely help with the heat issue quite a bit.
I am not an electroplating expert, but I will toss out my thoughts anyway.
The main delta is obviously the resistance of the traces. Have you tried to determine the resistance of each before plating?? Do traces of equal length have the same resistance?? Is the resistance-to-area ratio predictable?? Does a microscopic examination of freshly printed traces show the expected consistent deposition??
What I am getting at...
1. How high is the trace resistance??
2. How consistent is the trace resistance??
3. How consistent is the deposition of the conductive traces??
Thanks for the thoughts! I have done some very basic measurements of the trace resistance, but I plan to set up a much more rigorous experimental setup. From what I have experienced, the resistance of the traces is pretty equal for traces of the same length and width, provided they don't have different infill patterns (seldom the case). So I do think the resistance-to-area ratio is predictable and something I would like to measure as I definitely agree that will help in drastically improving the process. I haven't looked at the deposition consistency as I don't have access to a microscope or anything like that currently but I am sure I could pick something up on amazon to explore this a bit closer.
I've worked in my spare time this summer onto the same project. My goal was more focused towards creating a process that ease the transition of pcb designs from standard manifacturing to 3d printing. For instance by connecting each trace to a single point of contact with the anode via pillars that could [maybe someday] be automatically generated and than had to be removed after the plating, here a (failed) example with 2 traces https://imgur.com/a/L6cxBWA . You guys were faster/smarter :) Now I'm inspired to catch up again with this project, I'll try with a commercial plating solution instead of vinegar the next time.
BTW I found that by stirring the solution
(magnetic PTFE stirrer + ghetto style agitation plate made using magnets and a PC fan) during plating I was able to increase the current and decrease deposition time without damaging the piece.
That is awesome man, we also started from the columns approach, its definitely something I am still exploring. I haven't done much with stirring yet but will look into it. I am definitely looking to increase the deposition speed. If you want to collaborate a bit on this idea, send me a DM on twitter @shaunmulligan9 . I am sure there is a lot we can learn from each other!
Used lazer for plates, Very Nice project
Great project. I am looking into copper chemistry and how to automate ground extraction. I want to be able to build PCBs from scratch or recycled copper from old tracks. I can get copper into a copper sulphate solution probably using electrochemistry of copper in aqueous sulfur dioxide to produce Chevreul's salt. Then if I burn these salts in air I should get copper sulphate. This will allow full reprap. I want to then follow The Print 'n Plate Series on my channels if that's okay.
Hello
This is Liam from PCBWay.
Deeply impressed by your blog content which means a lot to electronic enthusiasts.
I’d like to sponsor your project by providing free PCB prototyping,
only hoping for a slight promotion or a review about quality or service in return.
Would you be interested in partnering up?
Hi actually protopasta pointed me to this project, since they "used to" tell people like me when they asked if you can electroplate onto this filament without conductive paint - "no"...but you seem to be doing it?! Very impressive. Can you offer any advice on that? Do you have to limit the strength of the acid to not eat the PLA? I'm hoping I can use this to eliminate my graphite+varnish paint initial step and go straight to copper (then nickel, then gold).
Hi Michael, sorry I must have missed this message! As far at the plating solution goes I didn't do anything to limit the strength of the acid, it's just a standard solution I got from https://www.drgalva.com/ . You can definitely go straight to copper in you standard setup. I have found that you need to make a really solid connection with the PLA, the best thing I have found is to use melted inserts in the PLA part and use those as connection points.
Have you tried printing the conductive filament onto FR4 material, rather than onto another layer of plastic? FR4 would solve the heat issue with soldering. Assuming you can print onto FR4.
Haven't tried that yet, I assume it would be possible to print directly onto FR4, our goal was to try do this with as few "exotic" materials as possible, but it's worth an experiment as it would definitely help with the heat issue quite a bit.
I am not an electroplating expert, but I will toss out my thoughts anyway.
The main delta is obviously the resistance of the traces. Have you tried to determine the resistance of each before plating?? Do traces of equal length have the same resistance?? Is the resistance-to-area ratio predictable?? Does a microscopic examination of freshly printed traces show the expected consistent deposition??
What I am getting at...
1. How high is the trace resistance??
2. How consistent is the trace resistance??
3. How consistent is the deposition of the conductive traces??
Just my thoughts on verifying the root cause(s).
Thanks for the thoughts! I have done some very basic measurements of the trace resistance, but I plan to set up a much more rigorous experimental setup. From what I have experienced, the resistance of the traces is pretty equal for traces of the same length and width, provided they don't have different infill patterns (seldom the case). So I do think the resistance-to-area ratio is predictable and something I would like to measure as I definitely agree that will help in drastically improving the process. I haven't looked at the deposition consistency as I don't have access to a microscope or anything like that currently but I am sure I could pick something up on amazon to explore this a bit closer.